The Soul Is Wide, the Soul Has No Gender, Interview with Khandokar Halima Akther (Ribon)

In my country—not only in my country, in this Indian subcontinent—to me, music is everywhere. If you see the tree, moving through the wind, there is a rhythm. And if you get close, you can feel the sound and rhythm. If you put the hand on the heart, there is a rhythm, there is a music. When you go to the river, the helmsman rides the boat. And our music—in my country, music is totally dependent on the environment. Everywhere, everywhere, the environment is around us, but we can find the differences. We can find the differences in geographical structures reflected in the rhythm of music.

            Not only that, but also the different professions are reflected in song.

            The song of north is the song of the cart—the ox pulling the cart along the muddy road, and the ups and downs and ups and downs—there, the music is like that. The cart driver sits in the cart, singing a song with that rhythm. They are driving on the muddy road, ups and downs, without dropping a beat.

            When you come to my area, near the big river, you can find the helmsmen. When they sing, the rhythm is wide, wide like the river. The helmsman is moving on the river, there’s no break in the rhythm.

            The helmsman and the cart driver they use music in their professions. When they are doing their work, they feel at ease because of the music even as they are working.

            The body, to me, is only a structure. The soul is wide, the soul has no gender. But we have to carry this body. Day by day, our body changes, but our soul is the same. So why do we relate to a human through their body? The soul is wide, the soul has no gender. Soul to soul, the connection is totally different. There is no barrier in soul to soul connection, there is no barrier.

            When I feel a connection with a soul in a male body, I feel confused. I cannot touch him because he has a male body; because of my society, because of my religion, because of my status. I feel a connection with that soul, but these things complicate it. When I feel a connection with a soul in a female body, I can touch her. Soul to soul connections are created between male and female; the body only carries the soul. The soul has no gender.

            Art is the expression of the soul through the body. I have to use my body to express it. Whether it’s a male body or a female body, whatever. If I want to paint something, I need my fingers. If I want to think, if I want to see I have to use the eyes. So, art is the expression of the soul through the body.

            The rabbit has his own culture, and the lion has his own culture. If the fox came to the rabbit and said, ‘Rabbit, rabbit, you must change the food you eat, or you will never be king. So, rabbit leave your carrot and try to eat the mouse and then you will be the king.’ So, what happened? If the rabbit is influenced by the fox, and the rabbit starts to eat rat, then the rabbit will die.

            In this world, every animal, every human being, in every culture, in every corner of the world, has their own way of living and are civilised in their own way. I don’t want to teach the ant what civilisation is. Ants know their civilization. The bees know their civilisation.

            It’s also a colonising thought, to say that when I am doing something, I have to label it and analyse it according to first world categories. Why did they divide the world into different layers? Because of the money, because of GDP. The culture of the first world is different because they have money. They have spread their research methodologies; they have spread their thoughts and their writing and all their -isms. And we are influenced by that.

            We have to find the magic, the magic realism, in our own stories and drama.

Transcribed Edited by Ruth Kelly

Dhaka, December 2019

On Feeling, Susan Nalugwa Kiguli

Interview with Kaddu Mabirizzi, Ssabatontomi (Poet Laureate) of Buganda Kingdom Ntinda

You know as well as I do that folk poetry surrounds us and that it is passed on in a way that does not make you resent it. Do you remember Kannemu kannabiri? Has anyone mentioned to you people such as the late Timuteo Mukasa? In 1980 I composed the following poem Omuvubuka omukristayo and I won the Namirembe Diocese Prize. From then on I got different engagements with even local theatre groups to recite poetry.

I compose on things I observe, things sometimes only whispered about in secret. I just do not simply recite; I first observe, listen and capture the voices that people will identify once they are heard on the stage.

[In this poem about independence] I have not pointed at the political leaders but at every one of us. This is what performance is about. You have to reflect on what you dealing with.

I do not want to leave people uncertain of what I am saying. For example the tone and vocal expression even without the actions matter a lot; (you know what I mean, I work the voice, I make it become the personality of the poem, it is as if the voice becomes another person within me - then we are two people: my voice and I). The voice expresses the mood and feeling. If the poem is about mourning, my voice will become the voices of the people at the funeral… I use the voice to get people to feel and know what I am saying. I make an attempt to use my voice to sway the audience’s feelings and to get them into the feeling of the poem. Feeling is important in our poetry, in our music. I care very strongly about the audience’s understanding of the feeling as well as the message. I believe live performance is better than any other form of performance.

Kampala, 2001

People! It’s Not A Bad Thing To Have Emotions,

Interview with Duniya Khandoker

Dhaka, December 2019

In storytelling, we bring lots of emotions—characters and situations. Sometimes we bring our past, and the past is always a very emotional place for people. In our country, music, story, the imagination, dreams, all of those things are really emotional for us.

            People! It’s not a bad thing to have emotions.

            If you think you can’t be emotional it means you are a robot. Deep in the sea, scuba diving; if you do that, don’t you feel like you could cry? Scuba diving is something! There are no sounds from the world, but different sounds, feelings, lots of colourful things in front of you, and you can feel the music of the ocean. Someone who goes scuba diving, I feel definitely that she or he could cry. You know why? Because of what she experienced.

            The people who are leading the world. They’re taking all the decisions. They are taking the lead to design development. But they don’t have emotions. Maybe they have emotions, but in practice, they don’t use that emotion. They think: if I get emotional it will be a weak point, maybe someone else can use my emotion … It means they are working with someone they really don’t trust. They are together, but they don’t trust each other. They can’t cry for their families. If they feel sick, they can’t express it, because maybe the other person might use it as a weapon. Mad. Madness. That’s why it becomes so brutal.

            Who was responsible for partition? Some people without emotions. If they had had emotions, maybe it would have been different. Maybe when they were cutting people off from each other, maybe with emotional experience, experience and expression, maybe their personalities would have been different. Then the decision might have been made differently.

            If they were no longer afraid to show emotion, maybe they would. And maybe things could change, maybe all the world could change.

Interview with Emilie Flower and Ruth Kelly, transcribed and edited by Ruth Kelly